Hour Rule

"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
09/25/2014 at 03:35 • Filed to: None

One thing I didn't expect to see in a Rallye Deutschland review video: a trophy truck on a tarmac rally stage giving zero fucks.

DISCUSSION (11)

RWS Motorsport > Dusty Ventures
09/25/2014 at 08:33

People power Vs jobsworth Crowd security at about 12 minutes. Clearly the idiot in the high vis has never seen a rally before. People will push a car out, thats how it works. Glad one of the other high vis wearing guys finally dragged him away and told him to calm down.

Dusty Ventures > RWS Motorsport
09/25/2014 at 11:49

Actually the issue was that the marshals were under orders to keep spectators away from the course, even in the case of a stuck car. It's a safety/liability thing in response to some spectators getting hit while trying to push a car back onto the road a while back. We've had those rules in the States for years (since we're the most lawyer-happy of the countries). If you go off here in the U.S. you do so knowing that even if there's spectators there they won't be able to help.

RWS Motorsport > Dusty Ventures
09/25/2014 at 14:10

I didnt realise the rules were as strict in the US for all rallies. In the UK at most club level rallies, you(spectators) arent regulated as to where to stand, and can go and help a stricken car if you choose (at your own risk). the WRC event in Wales has much stricter regulations about it, so yeah I can see why the Steward was trying to keep people away, safety first and all that/its his job. But he was physically grabbing one chap and trying to throw him over. just unnecessary in my opinion.

I think he was a steward, rather than a marshall too (just to be pedantic). Marshalls generally in Orange, or sometimes white. Stewards more often in day-glo yellow high vis.

tl;dr. I can see why steward was trying to stop people, but the way he was doing it was dickish, and he was clearly not going to stop the entire crowd.

Dusty Ventures > RWS Motorsport
09/25/2014 at 14:24

The marshal/steward was absolutely being a dick, and his behavior was excessive. In the states spectators are only allowed to spectate from certain designated areas, both because of the safety/liability issues and to keep property owners happy. On the safety front (both in regards to spectator areas and not being allowed to help a stuck car) one of the issues is American rally fans are less experienced. Because of the distances between rallies here (the distance between the furthest west rally in the championship and the furthest east rally is the equivalent of driving from Lisbon to Moscow, then driving to Helsinki) most fans have only been to a couple events at best, there isn't that base of knowledge and experience telling them where not to stand and how to safely lend assistance. As a result I've seen rogue spectators and even course workers standing on the outside of corners and in the runoff on a junction after a high speed section (basically imagine people had chairs where the car that wound up being stuck went off. You know that's a terrible place to sit, I know that's a terrible place to sit, a lot of the fans here don't know that's a terrible place to sit).

Also, there have been a few fatal incidents involving spectators here in the past. Just in the last 12 years we've had one rally, one desert race, and one sanctioning body shut down completely because they couldn't afford to operate after the lawsuits. And the Sports Car Club of America (a massive organization) chose to stop sanctioning rallies and focus on more track-based events for the same reasons after a spectator fatality at one of their events.

RWS Motorsport > Dusty Ventures
09/25/2014 at 14:59

Really interesitng hearing how events are run in the US. There have been several fatalaties at UK based rallies in the last few years, but thankfully it doesnt appear to have meant reduced access. I've not been to many rallies, and only in the last couple of years in the UK, but they have all been completely free access, to the point of being able to walk up the track between cars.

I dont know if the compensation culture in the UK is less prevalent, but it certainly seems like its more, at your own risk here.

For what its worth, i've said to my mum in the past about accidents (more at race tracks after a couple of near misses with a ginetta wheel, see picture) that I know the risks, and I've chosen to be there, so should anything happen, its on me. I remember reading in autosport that the parents of a spectator killed at a rally in northumberland had specifically come out and said, we dont blame the driver, and we dont want anyone else too. I wonder if thats just a different culture to the US?

the aftermath of the Ginetta crash:

Kinja'd!!!

Dusty Ventures > RWS Motorsport
09/25/2014 at 15:25

That's the thing. Here in America no matter what kind of stupid thing you do it's always someone else's fault. Take for example this crash in California. At this part of the course the road kinks slight right over a big jump. There were signs telling the fans they had to stay back at least 100 feet, and supposedly there was banner tape at one point as well (in previous years there had been snow fence). Spectators ignored the signs, tore down the tape, and closed on the course so that the road was narrowed to 20-30 feet, even on the blind landing side of the kink jump. One truck had a steering part break on landing (believed to be a tie rod), it turned hard left and rolled, killing eight and seriously injuring another 12. Seven of the eight families that lost a loved one died (the eighth refused, despite months of calls from lawyers trying to convince them to get on the money train), and most of the injured sued as well. The lawsuits named the driver of the truck, the company that built the truck, the sanctioning body, and the federal government, because it was federal land. In the end the defendants had to shell out millions of dollars, resulting in the end of the sanctioning body and all racing in the area. Nevermind the fact that the spectators had ignored the signs and barriers.

RWS Motorsport > Dusty Ventures
09/25/2014 at 15:41

Wow, thats astonishing.

Ive just done a quick google of the most high profile accident at a rally in the UK, the Jim Clark Rally 3 spectators were killed when a car left the road after a jump and hit them. Police investigated, and as far as i know, no criminal charges have been brought. As far as I know, no-one has involved lawyers to any extent. Safety has been stepped up for next year, and I would imagine that spectator areas will be more closely regulated, but I dont think the event is going to be cancelled.

Just fascinating to hear the difference in culture, well, blame culture i guess, between UK and USA. Without wishing to sound like an American Basher/anti american, seems like personal responsibility has been completely abandoned,

Dusty Ventures > RWS Motorsport
09/25/2014 at 16:20

I'd say that's more of an accurate assessment than it is America Bashing. Hell, there was once a successful lawsuit where a woman got a cup of hot coffee from McDonald's, badly burned her mouth, and sued McDonald's for not warning her the coffee was so hot. Now all hot beverage purveyors put a burn warning on their cups.

RWS Motorsport > Dusty Ventures
09/25/2014 at 16:33

Ha wow. Ive often wondered why there are warnings on things like that. like 'Silica Gel - Do Not Eat'.

now I know the reason: 'MURICA

Dusty Ventures > RWS Motorsport
09/25/2014 at 17:01

Yep. Better watch out though, it's probably only a matter of time before it spreads to your side of the pond. Being able to make others pay for your own stupidity is a very attractive prospect. ;)

RWS Motorsport > Dusty Ventures
09/25/2014 at 17:05

ha, well since you put it like that...